
From: "I am the NRA." 
Subject: RR Radio History: PRR Trainfone
To: Multiple recipients of list RAILROAD 

Someone asked, via email.
I did NOT save this the last time i wrote it up so here 'tis again.

Trainphone....  THAT was writtten up a couple of times in the RS&C issues i
have.

There was much experimentation, with PRR and USS (?) making extensive tests of
the trainfone system, mostly postwar.

Trainfone was very different.  It is not strictly speaking, "radio" in the
usual sense.  It operated on VLF freqs (60 something and 74 KHz come to mind)
and operates by air core transformer coupling, rather than by strictly
radiation.  On the loco, this meant the "handrail" style antennas, a "drum"
style on cabo....  errrrrr cabin car.

Wayside transceivers were located in towers.  Rather than an antenna, per se,
the signal was coupled to/from "any wires" that ran along the RoW.  Modulation
was FM.   (yes.  FM....).  head end could talk to tower, tower to head end and
caboose to either.  PRR made much of the "privacy" as the signal did not
proapagte (much) off RoW.  Initial installations were post war (MAY have
been started pre war...)  Out of service by 1960ish.

There was even a "walkie talkie" with an "antenna" for all the world like a
"hula hoop" to be worn over the shoulder while the brakey went about his
duties.  (real brakies will be rolling on the floor in laughter....)

That's the short version...

From SUVCWORR@aol.com Sat Jan 18 20:29:01 EST 1997
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Subject: Re: PRR E&F unit train-phone antennas (also unit phases) 
Status: RO

Yee Gaads!! I need to change my glasses.  The antennae wich I described was
from a picture of an FA unit not an F.  Mea Culpa.

The antennae on the F units and presumably the E units are as follows:

Facing the rear of an A unit:

The left antenna lead descends tp the first horiz. rib and enters the car
body.

The right lead descends along the right side of the striker plate to the last
horiz. rib it turns right toward the outside of the car body then angles
downward to the corner of the frame.

This detail can be seen in photo of the Conway tunrtable area in Pennsy
Diesel Years 4 bottom of pg. 97.  There are 3 EMD rear views in this photo
from the left they are 1st, 3rd & sixth units.  The first two units are
either F3A phase IV or F7 units.  The last appears to be an FP7.  The steam
roof detail for the steam generator is visible in the photo.

Rich Orr 



From robs@protocol.zycad.com Fri Jan 17 13:34:36 EST 1997
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From: robs@protocol.zycad.com
To: Members of group 
Subject: PRR E&F unit train-phone antennas (also unit phases)
Status: RO

Does anyone on the list know how the trainphone antennas were routed down the backs or PRR EMD cab units?
I just got two undec proto 2000 E7A's to paint up as the first two PRR E7a's and started to put antennas
on them.  The photos I have seem to show that the antennas bend downward and run down the back of the
units.  I can't find any pictures showing the rear of an uncoupled PRR E7 to see exactly how they ran
down the back.  Any photos or descriptions as to how they should be routed would be appreciated.  I also
need the same info on F3's and F7's and E8's.  

Also, Stewart released a few phase F3's and F7's in PRR paint.  F3 phase 2, F3 phase 4, F7 phase 1
early, and F7 phase 1 late.  It's pretty easy to distinguish the F3 phases but which F7's are
appropriate for which PRR units?  The difference in the model is very slight, only the roof overhang 
at the rear of the units.

Thanks for the help!

Rob Schoenberg
robs@protocol.zycad.com

From hfitch@juno.com Sat Jan 18 23:33:02 EST 1997
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From: hfitch@juno.com
To: Members of group 
Subject: Re: ??Train-Phone Question
Status: RO


On 18 Jan 97 21:59:17 UT jknorek@msen.com writes:
>Greetings all-
>I am about as closeted a Pennsy fan as you'll find, so forgive my 
>newbie-ness.
>
>Could ya'll please describe the function of the train-phones?
>Was it an Altoona design or an outside jobber who did the R&D?
>Did the crew use it to communicate with each other, or with the DS, or 
>with 
>other trains, or all of the above?
>
>Thank You very much-
> Jeff Knorek
>jknorek@msen.com
>


Jeff,

I cannot find the paper work that I had that described in detail the PRR
train phone system, but I remember some details.

The system used FM for transmission and reception (ahead of it's time).

Only worked on Railroad property.

Crew could talk with:

Head end or Rear end of same train
Train to Train
Train to Tower
Tower to Train

System was fitted to both steam and diesel power, but not on all
divisions.

Antenna and receivers are those weird looking things on the equipment. 
Some times, as on the tender of an M1a, they looked like handrails.

Lasted into the 60's and was phased out.  Even the 2500 series, U25B GE
diesels were equipped with train phone equipment when they were new
units. (APP. 1962)

This system is also demonstrated on one of the PRR films distributed by
Interurban Videos entitled     "Pennsylvania Collection"  Four Vintage
Pennsylvania Railroad Documentaries.  (1989 Video release, Interurban
bought out by Pentrex or somebody?)

(If you are an HO modeler, Bowser has the parts to add this detail to PRR
models.)

Wish you well in gaining additional information.


Harry Fitch
Ferndale, Maryland
hfitch@juno.com

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To: Members of group 
Subject: Re: train phone
Status: RO


On 19 Jan 97 11:52:34 UT shadow@dementia.org writes:
>I could swear that someone posted a reference to an issue of Keystone 
>with
>trainphone info in it, but I just checked all the messages, and no 
>such
>luck. Did they ever write up trainphone? Would anyone be willing to 
>fax
>the article to me?
>
>Thanks,
>-D
>
>(fax: 412-268-4987 attn: Derrick Brashear)
>
>
>
Unfortunately I do not have the correct credits for the authors of this
information that I have gathered.  My apologies for slighting anyone. 
This is compiled from notes that I have collected on the Internet.



Pennsylvania Railroad Trainphone Notes
(from various Internet pages)

**************************************************************************
Trainphone Notes: Section ONE

Trainphone....  THAT was written up a couple of times in the RS&C issues
I
have.

There was much experimentation, with PRR and USS (?) making extensive
tests of
the Trainphone system, mostly postwar.

Trainphone was very different.  It is not strictly speaking, "radio" in
the
usual sense.  It operated on VLF freq. (60 something and 74 kHz come to
mind)
and operates by air core transformer coupling, rather than by strictly
radiation.  On the loco, this meant the "handrail" style antennas, a
"drum"
style on the cabin car.

Wayside transceivers were located in towers.  Rather than an antenna, per
se,
the signal was coupled to/from "any wires" that ran along the RoW. 
Modulation
was FM.   (yes.  FM....).  head end could talk to tower, tower to head
end and
caboose to either.  PRR made much of the "privacy" as the signal did not
propagate (much) off RoW.  Initial installations were post war (MAY have
been started pre war...)  Out of service by 1960ish.

There was even a "walkie talkie" with an "antenna" for all the world like
a
"hula hoop" to be worn over the shoulder while the brakey went about his
duties.  (real brakies will be rolling on the floor in laughter....)

That's the short version...

******************************************************************************

Trainphone Notes Section TWO

Motive Power
  
        Q
               When did the PRR stop using the Trainphone system? 
               (Mike Clements)
        A 
               According to a caption on p. 122 of Yanosey's Penn Central
               Power, PRR's Trainphone system "was abandoned" in 1964.
               However, PRR's Central Region, Allegheny, Pittsburgh,
               Lake, and Northern Division Timetable #2 effective 2:01 AM
               Sunday, October 31, 1965, still listed towers with
               Trainphone capabilities. My guess is that the PRR
               gradually made the conversion to radios over a 1963-66
               time period.
               (Drew McGhee)
  Q
               Were all antennas removed before the PC merger? 
               (Mike Clements)
        A 
               Yanosey also has at least two photographs of ex-PRR
               diesels in Penn Central 'colors' with Trainphone equipment
               still attached. On p. 115, a Fairbanks Morse H16-44, PC
               5158, is shown sporting a Trainphone system inductor. Page
               122 shows a GP7, PC 5954, with a complete Trainphone
               antenna in place.
               (Drew McGhee)
               ([26]Additional Comments)
               I learned at the most recent PRR T&HS meeting that 2
               different types of Trainphone system were used. In one,
               there were 2 wires running on the locomotive roof, one for
               receiving, the other for transmitting. The other system
               had only one wire on the roof, and a round disk usually
               (?always) mounted on one end of the locomotive, near the
               roof. (MDB)



Harry Fitch
Ferndale,  Maryland
hfitch@juno.com

From BBReynolds@aol.com Tue Jan 21 22:21:49 EST 1997
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Subject: Re: Don't forget the line side wires (was Re: ??Train-Phone Question)
Status: RO

In a message dated 97-01-20 13:44:22 EST, TVondruska@aol.com wrote:

<<  I remember reading or hearing that the trainphone system was developed
 for, or by, personnel of the old Lines West area as a more efficent way of
 communicating train orders, a improvement necessitated by the greater
 distance between towers and stations west of Pittsburgh, and that the first
 installations were on equipment  west of Pittsburgh. Can anybody confirm or
 deny this?
  >>
My closet SPF recollection is that the first installation was on the
Belvidere-Delaware from Trenton to Belvidere in New Jersey...this from old
PRR ads in '40's TRAINS magazines.

From - Tue Sep 23 08:50:41 1997
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Subject: Re: cabin question
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Jim,

Installtion of the train phone system on cabin cars did not affect the
cabin's class. Any of these could and did use the TrainPhone. Geography
played a larger role in installation of the train phone. Interference from
the strong electromagentic fields surrounding catenary greatly reduced the
trainpone's effectiveness or rendered it useless. 
The N5 was as designed and built 1914-1917, the first all-steel cabin car.
The N5A was not an official PRR class but a railfan/modeler label for an
updating of the N5 design in the late 1930s including the collison posts and
beefed up sills of later designs, installation of A-B brakes and cushioned
draft gear. The updated cabins were still labeled N5.
The N5B was a new design based on the oringinal N5A design, incorporated all
the safety improvements and used a Dureya underframe. Two key sighting
points. The N5B had a vertical  riveted strip of metal similar to the N5 belt
rail running vertically on the middle of each side. A tool box was built
intobody just above the sill by the A end. Its door was flush with the car
side. There were 200 N5B units built in 1941 as classes preceding the N6A
were phased out.
The N5C is the porthole version. There is no N5D class mentioned in a
comprehensive story on modern Pennsy cabins in the December 1973 issue of the
Keystone or in either volume of Morning Sun's PRR Color guide to Freight &
Passenger Equipment Vol. 1 or Volume. Both have a picture of the sole N5E and
Vol. 1 has a picture of the N5F, of which there were only eight.
The N5E was a wrecked N5 which recieved paired rectangular windows ala the N8
and a streamlined cupola similar  to the N8's.
The N5F was an eight-car class of improved N5 cabin that lacked the improved
collision protection found on the "N5A." On its right side it has a larged
tool box suspended from the sill like that found on the N8.
It's good to hear from someone local. If you want a copy of The Keystone
article I could leave one with Nick and Sue at Home Hobbies. Since they're
Urbanans, I assume they know of the NX23 despite Nick's distain for all
things Pennsy. Could you give me directions so I can get a shot of the NX23.
I'd be coming up U.S. 68 from Yellow Springs.
And didn't you get a shot of the of the original Little Miami RR turntable
pit when they were ecavating the foundations of Kuss Auditorium (in downtown
Springfield, Ohio, for you Lines Easterners).

Tom Vondruska, Yellow Springs, on the old Little Miami RR, the Panhandle's
Springfield branch.


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Status: RO

As info, I can remember seeing two Conrail GP-9's (I don't know the numbers)
that were in the slug/mother conversion program come in to Juniata with the
recieving coils intact, but the transmitting loop removed.  I believe I saw
them in July of 1982.